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5-2. B. Texas redfish, or red drum, is a highly sought-after game fish off the Texas Gulf Coast. Blue Tilapia Non-game fish; no size minimum or possession limit. **. The exact shades of the colors are dependent on the habitat and geographic. was made a legal form of take. To find out more about the regulations for the reservoirs call (210) 635-8289 or visit the TPWD website Recommended Guide/Charter Service: Bones Fishing Guide Service (San Antonio, Calaveras Lake) This is one of the best guide services operating on Calaveras Lake for big redfish and catfish. Tuna. Distinguishing characteristics include a dark gray or green back and silvery-white below, with distinct round spots on back, fins and tail; black. In Texas, stocking has contributed to the recovery of red drum and spotted seatrout recreational fisheries. . 18 inches long. The limits and restrictions in this guide apply to aquatic life caught in the public waters of Texas out to 9 nautical mile in the Gulf of Mexico, and to aquatic life caught between 9 and 200 nautical miles in the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) and possessed in state waters or landed in this state. **Sportsmen can keep one fish over the 26-inch limit per day out of the three total reds allowed per day. But we’re probably going to end up releasing it, because it’s probably over 23 inches,’” the upper end of the trout slot. to change the appearance of fish subject to size limits or daily creel limits or remove the head and/or tail from fish that are regulated by a size limit so that they may not be measured and/or. These devices, subject to restrictions listed, may be used to take fish and other aquatic life in Texas public waters. Fishing with a Boat. Red drum, known by most as redfish, are found mostly near beaches and passes in adult sizes — fish over 10 pounds are mature and usually prefer coastal waters, though the Alabama state record — 45 pounds, 9 ounces — was caught from an industrial canal well north in Mobile Bay in July of 2013. This will run over the course of all 3 weekends and photos must be submitted by 8:00pm on the 6 th, 13th and/or 20. Charlie Paradoski, charlieparadoski. ”. Be sure to check these sites often, as regulations do. redfish grow way bigger. Currently, the very few hatchery-only operations remaining rarely produce stocker red drum;Red Drum. And those fish can be big. Red Drum are one of the most popular and easily found saltwater species in the U. For white bass, minimum length = 10 inches and daily bag is 25. 020 (b) of this code and: (1) fails to keep with the fish a document or documents that verify the place of origin of the fish; or. The species you can target from these departure points include redfish, speckled seatrout, black drum, flounder, and king mackerel. in salinities above 25 ppt. 2 g) are stocked at 1 000 fry/m 3. Chapter 145 of the General Statutes is hereby amended by adding a new section at the end thereof, to be designated as G. New rules regarding the marking, tending, and limits of yo-yos,Red Drum are usually distinguished by a dark red color on the back, white belly and with one large black spot on the upper part of the tail. Red drum is a fast growing fish reaching approximately 11 inches and one pound in its first year, 17-22 inches and 3 1/2 pounds in two years, and 22-24 inches and 6-8 pounds in three years. The average weight of black drum landed by recreational anglers in Texas is about 3 pounds. One redfish over the maximum length can be kept each year with a red drum tag that comes with a fishing license. Redfish, also know as red drum, are a popular inshore species available throughout the Gulf of Mexico and up the Atlantic Coast to Chesapeake Bay. just hope to catch one of legal size and, to borrow from the world of finance, legal tender, because both provide. The largest black drum on record weighed 146 pounds. 5 oz. But this strange feeding style doesn't slow their growth any — red drum may weigh in at 50 pounds!Drum, black a Drum, red b Flounder c Gar, alligator. market are the red drum and black drum, named for the loud drumming noise they make by contracting muscles connected to their air bladders. Note: Filleting at sea is allowed. D. 1, 2023 through Aug. (iii) No maximum length limit. Redfish Season: All year redfish are in season. “Red drum reach sexual maturity between their third and fourth years when they are about thirty inches long. Possession limits. SWS Planner: Texas Gulf Coast Redfish Action. Minimum size is 20 in. One black drum over 52" allowed as part of the daily bag. The red drum (Sciaenops ocellatus), also. The Carolina rig is a more lightweight setup, and is ideal or inshore fishing for puppy red drum with a lightweight redfish tackle setup. produced a hybrid cross between. S. they both spawn en masse. to be a hardy, fast-growing sport fish. Admin. Tuna. 6 kg. Red drum populations in Texas began a dramatic decline in the 1970s, prompting regulatory measures such as size, bag, and possession limits; restrictions on gill nets and their operation; a. SWS Planner: Texas Gulf Coast Redfish Action. The current size slot limit of 15 to 23 inches for red drum would remain unchanged. They typically reside in deeper water, and can be quite fast. These pre-spawn and spawning congregations of adult black drum offer anglers the opportunity to target the big fish. The redfish restrictions vary by region in Florida, so it is important to know where you are fishing and what regulations apply. Remove the oversized red drum tag by tearing along the perforated edges of the tag. “I said, ‘Man, that’s a good trout. Previous. estimated number includes red drum that are caught and released because they are below the minimum size limit (Figure 2). Texas Parks and Wildlife Department. In addition to the penalty provided in Section 66. Apparently they prefer shorelines, shallow waters and. Large scales. The channel bass (red drum) is hereby adopted as the official State saltwater fish of the State of North Carolina. Size and creel limits for spotted seatrout, flounder, red drum and weakfish taken in inland waters are the same as the recreational limits for those species in adjacent joint and coastal waters. ½ cup all-purpose flour. in other states, additional restrictions were placed on commercial fishing activities. Sciaenops ocellatus (Linnaeus, 1766) Common name: Red Drum. One or more dark, ocellated spots at base of tail (occasionally without spot) Lack barbels on lower jaw. Unlawful to gig, spear, or gaff red drum. In general, redfish must be between 18 and 27 inches long to be legal. Before you get too excited thinking that you can catch a 90-pound fish to feed your family for weeks, you should know a few things. Red Drum fingerlings are released during seasons outside of wild juvenile Red Drum recruitment, exposing them. Definitions. The current state record red drum was caught in the Gulf of Mexico in January 2000 and was 54 ¼ inches long and. Texas speckled trout size regulations allow for a limit of five fish per day and a slit size of 15 to 25 inches, with the ability to keep a fish larger than 25 inches long. About 500,000 fertilized eggs were. 4 inches (100 cm) TL. A variety of cage sizes and types are used for the cage culture of marine finfish. This will run over the course of all 3 weekends and photos must be submitted by 8:00pm on the 6 th, 13th and/or 20. The Texas redfish limit is a daily limit of 3 fish and a slit size of 20 to 28 inches, with the ability to keep a fish over 28 inches long with a red drum day. Upon maturity (age 4 and around 32 inches in length), red drum move out of the estuaries to join the adult spawning stock in the ocean. Offshore movement. —The Channel Bass (Red Drum) is hereby adopted as the official State salt water fish of the State of North Carolina. The changes enacted for the 2022-23 license year take effect Sept. Only slot size red drums (20”-28” in. The possession limit is the number of a single species you can have in your possession at one time; it is a combined total of your daily take and anything you have stored at home. Powerful pharyngeal teeth used to crush oysters and other shellfish. Red drum will tolerate low salinity water, but survival is reduced in water below 50. Increases of about two inches per year occur after that. Stanton Shoemaker fishing with a fly rod and polar bear slider. Spawning seems to occur in open water. The following are current state regulations for redfish from the Carolinas to Texas. Younger fish may feed on small invertebrates such as. These fish generally grow 20 to 30 inches long but can reach lengths of five feet,. 38 years (a few individuals as old as 60 have been reported in other states). Effective Date: August 1, 2020. Culling of striped bass and hybrid striped bass is prohibited. Daniel (1988), however, found larvae younger. This will run over the course of all 3 weekends and photos must be submitted by 8:00pm on the 6 th, 13th and/or 20. Laboratory experiments in Texas (Neill 1987; Holt et al. Serving Size: 3. A 7- or 7. Overall about 56% of legal-sized tagged Red Drum are released when caught by anglers. the red drum (redfish) and black. General Regulations. Synonyms and Other Names: redfish. Summer Flounder: 16-inch minimum size limit, possession limit of 4 fish per person per day. Oth­ ers have special seasonal regulations that prohibit culling the catch. 12861 Galm Road #7 San Antonio, Texas 78254 (210) 688-9460 or 688-9516 Randy Myers, Biologistthey both school. Red fish are a popular game fish, and can be found in both salt and fresh water. In 1979 the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department adopted the techniques pioneered by Arnold to stock an incredible 15 million red drum up and down the coast. 31, 2024. 3. Redfish limits in Alabama. Spread the love Redfish, also known as red drum, are a popular saltwater fish found along both the East Coast and the Gulf Coast. Use a 4- to 6-foot section of 30-pound fluoro leader. Similar Species: Black drum, P. Is Calaveras Lake freshwater or saltwater? The Texas Parks & Wildlife Department stocks tens of thousands of the saltwater species in Calaveras Lake, one of only three in the state to get redfish. Red Drum IN TEXAS The red drum (Sciaenops ocellatus), com-monly known in Texas as redfish, was popularized in the early 1980s by Chef Paul Prudhomme when he created “blackened redfish. We have you covered. It was birthed out of our abundance. Legal. Section 57. Hybrid Bass Limit: 5 per day Size: 18 in. The regulation changes are as follows: Sam Rayburn Reservoir (Angelina, Jasper, Nacogdoches, Sabine, and San Augustine counties) —. The red drum is a member of the drum and croaker family. Fish Finder Rig: 5/0 Circle Hook, 18″ Steel Leader #40 Lb. One taste and the public was hooked. RECREATIONAL SIZE AND POSSESSION LIMITS It is illegal to sell any seafood taken with a recreational license. It has an elongate, fusiform body with a gently rounded dorsal profile. Current state creel and size limits allow anglers to keep five redfish per day that are between 16 and 27 inches in length, which are considered juveniles. Catfishes are abundant, with more blues than channel cats in the legal size range. Counts as part of the daily bag and possession limit. One black drum per person per day over 25” TL is allowed. Davis* Redfish (Sciaenops ocellata) critically low temperature of the water will determine the success of pond cul-ture of red drum in the future. 1, 2023 through Aug. Bonus Red Drum Tag (Type 599): $3. (D) For aggregate creel limits for American shad and hickory shad, see the most recent DMF proclamation at Drum. 4200 Smith School Rd. Smallmouth bass Daily Bag: 5 fish for any. “Red drum reach sexual maturity between their third and fourth years when they are about thirty inches long. Minimum Size Limit: Min 18 IN. Alex Suescun 2022 Redfish (Red Drum) Regulations. A relatively novel way of fishing, casting from a kayak is quickly becoming a popular way to get your fill of fish in Rockport. The size limit for black drum in Texas is 14-30 inches, with a daily bag limit of five fish per person. All other states have redfish size limits that don’t allow you to keep fish over their slot limit. Leader: 10 to 20 lb test monofilament or fluorocarbon; Hook: #2 to 3/0 size circle hook or J-hook; Weight: 1/4 to. Clarification: No more than 1 spotted seatrout over the stated maximum length may be retained per person per day. RED DRUM (CHANNEL BASS, REDFISH) Red Drum Regulation 4 VAC 20-280-10 et seq. Size limits. The largest red drum on record weighed just over 94 lb and was caught in 1984 on Hatteras Island. From March to August, young red drum increase in size from 1 to 3 inches in total length to 8 to 10 inches. New regulations appear in red text throughout the pamphlet. (1993, 1995) and McEachron and Daniels (1995). A redfish must be at least 20” but no more than 28” in length to be legally harvested. Austin, TX 78744 (512) 389-4800 (800) 792-1112The Red Drum Sciaenops ocellatus is a large, long-lived, recreationally and commercially desirable species (Beckman et al. red drum. To ensure the sustainability of these species and preserve the ecosystem, it’s crucial to understand Louisiana’s regulations on saltwater fish limits. Code § 47. The largest black drum on record weighed 146 pounds. In Texas freshwater drum may spawn in April or May. Reproduction of these mussels may be affected by red drum feeding on juvenile mussels. However, the Red Drum has been known to reach considerable sizes as they age, with the largest recorded Red Drum weighing just over 94 pounds, caught in 1984 on Hatteras Island. potential for recreational harvest is significant since legal size fish inhabit inshore and nearshore waters during a large. San Antonio, Texas 78254 (210) 688-9460 or 688-9516 Randy Myers, Biologist. You have permission to edit this article. Federal law also regulates species between 9. The Laguna Madre is the longest and largest of seven estuarine systems in Texas and is one of six hypersaline bays worldwide in which the water is saltier than normal seawater (Figure 1. 7 pounds. This reservoir has a special regulation on red drum. Red fish are a popular game fish, and can be found in both salt and fresh water. Bow Fishing Regulations. Advertisement Article continues below this ad Speckled trout 10 per day except in the Lower Laguna Madre, where the daily bag limit is five; 15-inch minimum. Daily bag = 3 fish. One winner will be announced. Max. It is unlawful to possess red drum taken in a commercial fishing operation that is not in legal possession of either, flounder, bluefish, black drum, or striped mullet caught* The Texas A&M University System Red Drum Production of Food Fish James T. ” The recipe featured red drum filets dipped in butter, rubbed with Cajun spices, and then seared in a very hot skillet. Red drum begin spawning in the fall when daylight hours decrease and water temperature begins to cool. Black Drum fish lack the black spot that characterizes their red counterparts. Apparently they prefer shorelines, shallow waters and. 078 annually and is relatively stable. Previous. Texas Parks & Wildlife Department. The daily pocket limit for redfish in Texas is three redfish per person. Selective feeding pat-Back is highly-arched and gray or black, fading to a lighter belly. Tex. 981, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database The Carolina rig is a popular rig for Red Drum fishing. they both spawn en masse. The higherMinimum size: 19 inches Possession limit: Unlimited. Average size: 10-30 pounds. Speckled Sea Trout Regulation Changes. Record Size: 60 inches, 94 pounds. 6 mm per day, though the rates varied with location and year and were. 3 kg). Report online, via the mobile app, or by calling 800. 2-201 of the Code of Virginia. It has a diverse aquaculture industry including sportfish, baitfish, tilapia, oyster, and marine algae production and home to one of only two freshwater prawn. 5 meters) total length. 372. What are the Florida black drum size limits? In Florida, you are allowed. Red fish are a fun fish to catch, and can be quite challenging. They spawn in the Gulf, possibly near the mouths of passes. For white bass, minimum length = 10 inches and daily bag is 25. The size limit is set between 18 inches and 27 inches to allow the larger, sexually mature red drum to spawn. Body is copper-bronze, fading to a lighter belly. A. Red Drum (Sciaenops ocellatus) General Description Iridescent silver-gray with a copper cast, darker above; one or more oscillated spots on upper sides from below soft portion of dorsal fin to base of caudal fin. The limit on black drum in Texas is five fish per day, with a slot limit of 14 inches to 30 inches. The record red drum was 94 pounds and was caught on the East coast. They are the largest fish in the drum family, and some have even grown. While these fish both tend to range from 5-30 pounds, black drum eventually outgrow redfish—reaching a maximum size of around 100 pounds compared to 90 pounds. Smaller Shark: Same as above, but increase leader length to. A redfish must be at least 20” but no more than 28” in length to be legally harvested. Taxonomy: available through. Red drum cannot tolerate extended periods of time when water tempera-tures are below 40°F. Sharks may not be taken by gill nets. A. See bag and size limits. Distribution of juvenile red drum in these estuaries is poorly understood. In addition to these 3 states, Texas allows you to keep one bull redfish per year. These limits let you know how many redfish you can keep and how big they must be. Fishermen/women can use rod/reel or cast nets to bag their daily limit. The daily bag limit for redfish in Texas is three redfish per person. Young flounder that do not migrate to the Gulf, spend the winter in deep holes and channels. " Sec. Possession = double the daily bag limit. The current slot limit, which would not be changed under DNR’s proposal, is a 14-inch total length minimum and 23-inch maximum total length for legal redfish. The proposed change to red drum fishing regulations comes after CRD conducted a satisfaction survey in 2022, as well as two town hall meetings in June 2022, to assess angler and. Carpenter, Director The Texas A&M University SystemCollege Station, Texas. Definitions. The story of red drum conservation in Texas begins in the late 1970s, when the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department and members of the newly formed Gulf Coast Conservation Association (now CCA) took notice of declining red drum abundance and began pursuing aggressive legislative and management actions aimed at recovery of red. Five times per day; minimum length: 14 inches, maximum length: 30-inch. Spotted seatrout males average 19 inches (48 cm) in length. USA Records by State > Why Catch Red Drum Fish? 15 inches. Redfish in North Carolina must be at least 18 inches long but less than 27 inches in total length to meet the slot limit and be legal for harvest. Gigging, spearing, or snatching redfish is prohibited in the state of Florida. 7 kg to a desired market size of approximately 1. Only slot size red drums (20”-28” in. The red drum and black drum are close cousins, but man are they different. Catching the giant bullfish is just one of the many things Louisiana is known for. The monster black drum that Alistair Bremner caught very likely was a world record — at more than 122 pounds, 4 feet long and nearly as big around. Texas. Family: Sciaenidae. Stocking Most fingerling red drum are stocked into ponds for growout at a rate of 2,000 to 4,000 per acre. Red Drum (Channel Bass, Puppy Drum) 18-27″ TL: 1/Day: Unlawful to possess red drum greater than 27” TL. A. Red Drum. Anglers are drawn to their stunning copper-bronze hues and the distinctive black dot gracing their tail. Similar Species: Red drum, S. Possession & Transport of Exotic Aquatic Species. Other Although freshwater drum is considered a rough fish by many anglers, it is prized as a food fish in some areas. 1 cup panko breadcrumbs. In all zones, there is a slot size limit of 18 to 27 inches total length. Texas Administrative Code. Powerful pharyngeal teeth used to crush oysters and other shellfish. Texas Redfish Limits A redfish must be at least 20″ but no more than 28″ in length to be legally harvested. Van Tassell ©. 4VAC20-280-40. sink@tamu. The daily bag limit for redfish in Texas is three redfish per person. redfish are tougher. Fishing with a Boat. Texas Parks and Wildlife officials with the Inland. Holt, G. In the late 1980s red drum was overfished, thus several emergency closures were established to reduce fishing pressure and allow the stock to rebuild. Daily bag = 3 fish. Mackerel Bag & Length Limits. Legal. The rig generally involves a 50- or 60-pound leader, a circle hook, and a pyramid sinker to keep the line in position. However, adults can live for more than 40 years, be five feet long and tip the scale at more than 80 pounds. 29” min carcass length or 33 lbs. Read Section 57. Valid Sep. One redfish over the maximum length can be kept each year with a red drum tag that comes with a fishing license. Females are 25 inches (63 cm) long on average. The limits and restrictions in this guide apply to aquatic life caught in the public waters of Texas out to 9 nautical mile in the Gulf of Mexico, and to aquatic life caught between 9 and 200 nautical miles in the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) and possessed in state waters or landed in this state. World Record Size: The biggest redfish ever caught was by Mr. What is the legal size for red drum in Texas? For red drum, minimum length = 20 inches, with no maximum length limit. Colura and Anthony F. 1 (in any allowable combination) - Special regulation: The daily bag limit is one fish for all allowable shark species including Atlantic sharpnose, blacktip and bonnethead. Federal law also regulates species between 9. Final Trim Size: 7-7/8˝ X 10-1/2˝. One winner will be announced. One of the most noticeable differences to anglers is the peak. Also known as redfish. Seasonal abundance, size distribution, year-class presence, residence duration, and migrational patterns of red drum, Sciaenops ocellatus, in an estuarine marsh creek in the northern Indian River Lagoon, Florida, were investigated during a study in which gill net samples were collected monthly from August 1991 to March 1996. A total of 598 red drum ranging from 291–763 mm total length were collected and their stomach contents analyzed during fall 1997 and spring 1998. Redfish, also know as red drum, are a popular inshore species available throughout the Gulf of Mexico and up the Atlantic Coast to Chesapeake Bay. Possession = double the daily bag limit. (3) The fee for replacement of a Texas resident active duty military and "all water" fishing package replacement is $0. The Maryland state record was caught in 1977 in Tangier sound and weighed 74 pounds 6 ounces. The daily bag limit for redfish in Texas is three redfish per person. Min. Drum are also sought after as bait for other species. 1, 2022. These fish can grow quite large – some reaching well over 100 pounds. Females are 25 inches (63 cm) long on average. they both can withstand varying salinities (redfish do much better with this) There are also some striking differences: redfish are much stronger. min. David Deuel while fishing mullet along the bottom of a sandbar in Avon, North Carolina on 11/7/1984. Possession of red drum over the prescribed maximum size of 24 inches total length, when measured with the mouth closed, is prohibited. 66. Jacksonville, Florida 32254, US. Minimum Length: 14 inches Special regulations may apply to certain waterbodies. Red drum with multiple spots and the youth who caught the Red drum with the most spots will win. just hope to catch one of legal size and, to borrow from the world of finance, legal tender, because both provide. Perfect for all sorts of fish – Redfish, Speckled Trout, small Grouper, Cobia, Flounder, Snook, Bluefish, and other fish found close to shore. Juveniles have 4 to 6 dark vertical bars on sides (fade with age) Barbels on lower jaw. See bass comparison and identification. Section 1. Drum, Red (Red Fish, Bull Red) Daily Limit: 3; Minimum Length: 20 inches; Maximum Length: 28 inches; Red Drum Tag: Allows 1 Red Drum greater than 28 inches. Implement largemouth bass harvest regulations for soon to be opened Bois d’Arc Lake to establish a 16-inch maximum size limit and exceptions for temporary possession of 24-inch bass for weighing as potential ShareLunkers. cromis (has chin barbels and lacks spot on tail) Size. At one year of age (in September), red drum are10-12 inches long, and weigh just under one pound. Harvest of red drum from federal waters ,s prohibited Commercial harvest and sale of native red drum has been prohibited in state waters since 1989. Red Drum (Channel Bass, Puppy Drum) 18-27″ TL: 1/Day: Unlawful to possess red drum greater than 27” TL. These time periods were convenient for subsequent age. No significant difference (P = 0. What is the legal size for red fish in Texas? Texas Redfish Limits. The average weight of black drum landed by recreational anglers in Texas is about 3 pounds. 4200 Smith School Rd. 4. Possession & Transport of Exotic Aquatic Species. The Texas Parks and Wildlife Department's (TPWD) Marine Stock Enhancement Program has introduced an average of 20 million fingerling Red Drum Sciaenops ocellatus into bays across Texas annually since 1983. Fill out the necessary information on the tag which includes: (1) the date (cut out the month and day found along the edges of the tag); (2) the place where the fish was caught (such as the name of the bay); and, (3) the county in which the fish was caught. For red drum, minimum length = 20 inches, with no maximum length limit. 1 S Main St. 0%, by weight, of speckled trout less than 14 inches in total length. It comes with a single redfish label, which must take a red drum of more than 28 inches per license year. The size at settlement is determined by the substrate of the settlement site (Havel et al. Size limit: Only redfish between 16” and 26” may be kept. Arnold 196 Assessing imrnunocompetence of red drum Sciaenops ocellatus!. Some are solid silvery gray or jet black. The size limit minimum length is 14 inches, and the size limit minimum length of 30 inches. Body is copper-bronze, fading to a lighter belly. The record red drum was 94. Distribution of juvenile red drum in these estuaries is poorly understood. The maximum age observed for a Red Drum in North Carolina was 62 years for a male weighing nearly 88 pounds; Red Drum average 12-14 inches at age 1 and reach harvestable size (18 inches) by age 2; 2022 Harvest Seasons for Red Drum. (b) The possession limit does not apply to fish in the. 1981). Red drum were sometimes found right in our canal (about 1. The current Texas rod-and-reel record weighed 59. catch was less than the minimum legal size of 14 inches TL. Black drums are saltwater fish that normally weigh anywhere from 5 to 30 pounds. 3(a)(12) this title (relating to Super Combination Hunting and Fishing License Packages) or under a lifetime license with the digital tagging option provided by §53. ducers surround Matagorda Bay in Texas; it is the source of most red drum broodfish currently used in the U. Neill, and David Abrego CCA Marine Development Center Texas Parks & Wildlife Department (TPWD) 4300 Waldron Road Corpus. S. Texas Redfish Limits. The Texas Parks and Wildlife Department estimates that sales of illegally caught fish — including red snapper, tuna, amberjack, grouper and red drum from a network of about a dozen unlicensed. A Redfish With as Many Spots as a Seatrout. $389,000 Last Sold Price. Commercial harvesting of red drum is prohibited throughout the gulf coast states with the. SA. ) 1 In Texas, the Laguna Madre is divided into two sections: Photo courtsey of Texas Aquatic Science ©2019, (Rosen Rudolph) The Upper.